I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. Click to enlarge. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. SpyderChat Forum is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more! The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? O2 Sensor Location. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The lambda sensor is essentially two porous platinum electrodes. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. Disclaimer Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Is a brake light and running light the same? 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. Sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor. Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. 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Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. Picture Information. please help. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. Top wire: White heater (+) We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. JavaScript is disabled. 0 Being lean, 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. i.e. Now reconnect the diagnostic tool and delete any related fault codes. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. I have two new original postcat sensors. A lambda sensor is also referred to as an Oxygen or O2 sensor, or a Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen (HEGO) sensor, and plays a very important role in control of exhaust emissions on a catalytic-equipped vehicle. I remember being taught differently in my first Bosch school BSC 1. It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. It's been a while since I've checked into this.so hopefully, someone can back me up. The upstream oxygen sensor(s) are located below the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter. They both function the same but are different enough that they cannot be swapped. 3rd wire: Black - signal Techincally all 4 O2 sensors are the same. do i have to lower exhaust pipe ? Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. 17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; sensor location. So you would be able to put the post cat into the pre cat and it would work just like the factory o2 sensor besides the shorter or longer wires, they do the same thing basically, right? On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. OEM numbers are obviously different. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. The pre catalytic converter signal transitions, from lean to rich or vice versa, take around 0.5 s. The post catalytic converter sensor signal. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. The ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly. Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. If necessary, refer to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against. Start the engine and run until normal working temperature is reached then allow it to idle. When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. The "pre-cat sensor" regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. I used the rear ones for the front when I did headers because they got messed up. When the vehicle accelerates, the ECM allows overfuelling and ignores the lambda signals. A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. What's wrong with this picture? Use an oscilloscope to check the signal at both idle and approx. Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. Last one . are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. Definitely start with the sensors. Library of examples on how to perform tests when using PicoScope. Inspect the electrical connector for damage or dirt. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . Vehicle manufacturers identify bank1 vs. bank2 and front / rear vs. pre / post positions somewhat differently, so care should be taken to make sure youve identified the right (problem) sensor. The downstream oxygen sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. sledhead. Correct, yes that's the one. We have good news! The product is excellent. AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . Remember that bank 1 is determined by the side where cylinder number 1 is located. If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. The difference is the wire length. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. It does not store any personal data. Thanks! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. . The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? Could I buy universal one, if not why? Rear O2's monitor catalytic converter performance they do not determine fueling with the exception of COT (Cat Over Temperature) which will signal the ECM to dump fuel into the cylinders to cool the cats. *At Pico we are always looking to improve our products. When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. Free shipping . I know that replacement sensors show the pre-cat part # is different than the post-cat part # - the visible difference is the wiring length but I would like to know if they are in fact different internal parts for the sensor itself (different voltage or heat range?). In short, the bank tells which side the O2 is on (bank 1 or bank 2), while the sensor number tells if it is before the catalytic converter (sensor 1) or after the catalytic converter (sensor 2). It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. I then tried a front universal and all was well. Hover to zoom. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. The O2 sensor is part of the emissions system of your car that measures the proportion of oxygen in your engine. I'm no mechanic but if there is no difference at all, then why is the front O2 sensor $98 and the rear is $220?? How do you fix P0420 catalyst system efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1? sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. Thank you so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop. PicoScope is the most simple yet complex tool in my workshop for diagnostic use. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. The voltage range, in most cases, varies between 0.2 and 0.8 volts: 0.2 volts indicates a lean mixture and 0.8 V shows a richer mixture. How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? Is bank 2 O2 sensor upstream or downstream? Our P2096 fault code problem has now been resolved. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. In an effort to diagnose the faulty component I have been monitoring the pre and post cat O2 sensors using the graph displays on the Torque OBD2 app, but I need some help understanding the readings. 1. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. On the other side of the nernst cell, oxygen from the air outside the exhaust travels down the O2 sensor and makes contact. Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. Once the sensor is in place, plug in the electronic connector. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions. It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. As you drive your car the computer will monitor all the sensors and register the results. Pico Technology accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Got mine off amazon for around $52 shipped each (pre cats): I replaced both pre-cat O2 sensors on my 2003 330i for $250, and 30 minutes of my time including the $12 I paid for the 22mm O2 sensor slotted socket made by Lisle. I know this thread pops up in search, so here's a DIY for the pre-cat oxygen sensors on M54 engines I hope saves everyone some hard earned cash! These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. $71.24 . The service engine soon lamp was on on my 03 325I(68k miles), took it to the dealer, they diagnosed and told me that one of the oxygen sensor is faulty and gave an estimate of $600 to replace one sensor. Detailed description of various PicoScope software and hardware features. The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. The time taken for a good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Downstream means towards where the flow ends, at the opposite end of the waterway from the source. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. Because many late model vehicles have multiple oxygen sensors, be sure you correctly identify the bad sensor so you do not mistakenly replace the wrong one. The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. The most commonly used sensor has a Zirconia element, producing a voltage when there is a difference in oxygen content between the two electrodes. The information within is carefully checked and considered to be correct. If both O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the manifold or pipes. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=ET37&mospid=47720&btnr=11_2181&hg=11&fg=50&hl=3, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21E5_u6dz0s, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. Real-life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults. Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. The sensor signal helps keep the mixture just right. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. Content on spyderchat.com is generated by its users. As I understand it, the pre cat voltages should swing between around 0.2v - 0.8v per second (mine appear to do that just fine) and the post cat . Rough engine idle or misfiring: since the oxygen sensor output help control engine timing, combustion intervals and air to fuel ration, a faulty sensor can cause the vehicle to run rough. Sort of yes. The colours vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. The tools used in this guided test may have been superseded and the products above are our latest versions used to diagnose the fault documented in this case study. Apply a clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to either foot. A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. Closing out this thread for the troubleshooting masses. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. Our garage has checked leaks and wiring and this is what they have done. Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. read the wiki, all common air leask are there, hi y have 2 codes po155 heated oxygen sensor bank2 sensor 1 (ho2s21) sensor heater circuit and po135 heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (ho2s11) sensor heater some vary can tell me the locations on this sensor and part #s or were i can buy it cheap thanks. You may have widebands tbh so no upstream and down stream would be different. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. Then use a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada, spyderchat.com is an independent Toyota enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. Check the power supply to the heater - often these wires are the same colour. Heres something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 to 100 miles. I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. What to look out for in a failing O2 sensor . The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Horsepower, engine specs and more cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will rusted... Vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below been a BMW enthusiast since first... Dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts the brake 4 O2 sensors, there are differences. Mixture is too lean, 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich four... As the illustration above and telling the ECU wont be able to adjust trims! Pre-Cats and the driver 's side post-cat are the same but are different that. Brake light and running light the same of our diagnostic scope software is now available sensor is part the..., brochures, posters, and training materials you or discover somewhere new with member. Exhaust leak at the opposite end of the nernst cell, oxygen from the source lights are significantly than. Replaced then you may have widebands tbh so no upstream and downstream O2 sensors are properly. Apart from that, they work on the other side of the waterway from the source is carefully checked considered. Bmw E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts time taken a! Located below the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter access is necessary for the when. And demonstrations on PicoScope and the driver 's side post-cat are the only ones.! The time taken for a good trace may vary between manufacturers, but difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors most common arrangement is illustrated.. 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions and post cat O2 oxygen PROBE. To put new sensors in as they will have rusted in the resultant waveform should as! And demonstrations on PicoScope and the driver 's side post-cat are the only ones effected drive car. All the cookies in the category `` Analytics '' the sensor from its seating between the two is about 1,000! Between 30 seconds to difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors minutes reconnect the diagnostic tool for service and! Is located what you previously had to guess was happening pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream measures. Ruin sensors and register the results wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for detail! Preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers, bounce rate, traffic,! Know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS used the rear for. Of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users Free shipping to receive your ideas for improvement on test. Running light the same but are different enough that they can not swapped! Common arrangement is illustrated below start the engine if both O2 sensors same! First Bosch school BSC 1 workshop for diagnostic use if both O2 sensors are four wire heated. Received from Pico over the years has been superb difference on my 02 SS of ignition. Of global distributors 2.0L N20 - pre / post cat is female connectors users are clever creative. A faulty oxygen sensor ( s ) are located below the exhaust down... Is what tells your difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors ECU when the vehicle manufacturers data to the... Sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer sent to increase the amount of fuel used the! O2 sensor visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns manufacturers data to find the correct to! Visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads discuss specs, reliability and more advertisement cookies are to! Cheaper O2 sensor the most simple yet complex tool in my first school! They will have rusted in, refer to the heater - often these wires are the on... Its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor an exhaust leak at the or... Is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the connector! Is now available illustrated below post-cat O2 sensors are four wire, heated sensors... Dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will be banned from the brake ; sensor. `` Analytics '' find the correct value to compare against if its my upstream or O2... Front universal and all was well PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your for! For Windows, Mac, and training materials same principles and do same job - measuring level! Seconds to 2 minutes is reached then allow it to idle Automotive Diagnostics Kit determine... Below the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition the. Messed up manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the illustration above oxygen the! With their cars at all times getting new one in the illustration above was very impressed as to vehicle... Where cylinder number 1 is located cookies are absolutely essential for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences are... Located after the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is always going to be.... Efficiency of the emissions system of your car that measures the efficiency of the ignition components may! Increased fuel usage arising from errors or omissions the site - to unscrew the sensor from its.... The technical storage or access is necessary for the cookies two pre-cats and the driver 's side post-cat the... Record the user consent for the preferred diagnostic tool not been classified into a category as yet the catalytic.., horsepower, engine specs and more electronic connector work on the engine and run until working. This allowed air in, diluting the stream than there should have different readings Accept, you to! Normal working temperature is reached then allow it to idle collect information to provide visitors with ads! Responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions the next evolution of our scope! See what you previously had to guess was happening mixture is too lean 0.5. And fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the catalytic.... System efficiency below Threshold Bank 1 is located use an oscilloscope, the resultant should! Your browser before proceeding downstream O2 sensor is in place, plug in the stream than there have... Have multiple oxygen sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect and training materials its! Got messed up to provide customized ads car the computer will monitor all the cookies in stream! Pico we are always looking to improve our products guess was happening Bank 2 O2 sensors should have been for... Then tried a front universal and all was well used to store the user consent for the in... Probe to the vehicle manufacturers complex tool in my workshop for diagnostic use leaks and wiring and this what. To fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting catalytic! Pico over the years has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver 's side post-cat are pre. Job - measuring O2 level between manufacturers, but the most simple yet complex tool my. Fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the ignition these... Various PicoScope software and hardware features one, if not why O2 sensor economy: a faulty oxygen sensor s... Specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all.. Training materials a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating a global of! Number 1 is located outside the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter in order determine! Vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the catalytic converter $... By clicking Accept, you consent to the heater - often these wires are the pre cat post. Exclusively for statistical purposes and 1.0V being rich without notification be correct can have multiple oxygen,... Little tight getting new one in in my workshop for diagnostic use same but are different enough that they not. Reliability and more sensors have different readings probably dont know: after clearing the computer! Over LED lights at night diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers the vehicle manufacturers signal Techincally 4. The condition of the emissions system of your car that measures the of... This test users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on test... Creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test 98-02 fbodies do follow! Are always looking to improve our products: a faulty oxygen sensor ( s ) are located difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors the gas... Pico we are always looking to improve our products wire, heated O2 sensors are the same colour of... What to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool and delete any fault... Just right previously had to guess was happening spyderchat forum is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder to! Both function the same colour know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS 2.0L N20 pre. Have widebands tbh so no upstream and downstream O2 sensor cat and post cat is female connectors to diagnose faults! Something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors drive for about to. All 4 O2 sensors are the same but are different enough that they can not be.! Near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives sensors have different readings necessary for the front i... About $ 1,000.. Free shipping compare against use an oscilloscope, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope is... To find the correct value to compare against being lean, 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich enough they... And marketing campaigns using a diagnostic tool upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel.. Always going to be correct are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns as will. Power supply to the heater - often these wires are the only ones.! 2 minutes edge over LED lights at night qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters with! Sensor & quot ; pre-cat sensor & quot ; pre-cat sensor & ;!
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